Want to start off by saying this an awesome plugin! I'm not so new to 3DS Max, but rather the plugin. I've probably watched a few hours worth of your tutorials and the plugin seems pretty intuitive. However, it seems as if my models do not update when edited and re-exported. For example:
I can create simple world geometry (4 walls, a ceiling, and a floor) and place a box in the middle of the map. I can apply a standard material with a bitmap (TGA) to the box, create a hull, assign it, set as concave, and export it as well as everything (all types of materials, paks, VMF, etc) as per directions and it will run fine in-game.
However, if I go back and edit the model in any way (size, material, position, etc) and re-export it along with an updated VMF file, the changes will not be reflected in-game and often show up as a black object.
It's probably a simple fix, but I haven't been able to find any topics or questions similar to this problem. Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Welcome to the forums :)
Well I cannot say that I know specifically what is going on, but I can give some ideas.
First, a question: is it just models that do not export or their textures too? Actually, I really meant to ask if the models AND textures are actually exporting again? (There is a global setting that will stop the WWMT exporter form overwriting existing QC files.)
OK. Well I think that I have seen this happen before, but I cannot recall the specific scenario. My gut tells me that this might happen if you keep the mod/game open while you recompiling. Is this true with you? If so, try to close out the game, recompile, then reload the level.
Let me know if this alleviates the problem.
[TIP] While developing the level, do not PAK the assets into the level. Instead, wait until you are prepared to release or distribute. This way, you do not need to re-export the VMF or repak the models/materials. I personally find that a little bit easier to deal with.
Thanks for the prompt response! It's mostly the textures not updating upon change and re-exporting the model. The said textures have been exported and in the correct directories. If I resize the model or move it, it's sometimes reflected in the game, but sometimes not. The new texture is almost always never applied after editing and re-exporting the model leaving it black. Not sure if it's due to leaving the game open because sometimes I keep it open between tests and sometimes I don't. I believe I've tried to reboot the game and it didn't solve the problem. I'll start a new project and attempt to recreate the problem, but follow your advice to see if it indeed still recreates the issue. I will report back. Thanks!
So, the model updated in-game after re-exporting it. I feel this is somehow related to following your advice on not PAKing. However, my point entities (terrorist spawn points to be specific) stopped working forcing me to 'spectate' in-game. This happened after updating the model and exporting it. Very strange. Also, I get a tracer-like blurry effect upon looking around in spectate mode. Seems like these issues shouldn't be related to updating a model. Also, running the compile batch alone doesn't update anything when running the map. I actually have to re-export the VMF and compile on export for each update to show in-game.
I cannot think of a reason for the spawn points to stop working. Did you accidentally uncheck the Point Entities option in the Export settings of the VMF exporter?
The blurry sky is probably because the exporter needs to know the name of the sky to use. Enter a sky that is part of your mod, or create one with the Sky Writer tool in WW.
As to why it previously didn't do that and now does makes me think that the vmf export settings for the file got lost somehow.
As for running the compile batch... that function will do nothing if the scene hasn't been exported at least once; in terms of updating the scene, the export has to run for any actual changes related to scene settings (non model/texture compiling).
Let me know if this helps at all.
The entities were checked during the export. I deleted all models (just one box in this case) and the points started working again. Really strange.
I recreated the model, redid what I had done previously and everything seems to work fine. I also had another question about hulls.
When I create a hull around an object and export that object, it seems as if that hull is married to the object in whatever position is was upon export. Therefor, I can move the original object around in the scene and it will still be concave where ever I place it regardless of where the hull master is located in the scene. That being said, what should I do with the hull just sitting in the scene? Hide it? It seems like it's just taking up space in the scene at that point. Also, what purposes do the helpers serve? I vaguely remember them being important when creating proxies, but I can't remember any other time they're used. Thanks for the replies!
Thanks for the replies!
I have never experienced that problem. If it comes back, please send me a sample scene so I can determine the cause.
As for hulls... It is best practice for static prop models to combine your hulls into a single mesh (if not already) and then to keep the hull aligned relative to the mesh no matter where you move it. The easiest way to do that is, after combining the hulls into one mesh, linking the hull to the root model. Combining the hulls is not always recommended for skinned models or complex animated models that are concave.
There is a function in Hull Helper to quickly collapse hulls to one object called Merge Selected Hulls.
Note that linking the hull to the root mesh may not always work as expected if there are skin modifiers involved.
[TIP] Sometimes the hulls do not show up as changed in HLMV/Hammer if you compile a model while the model is currently loaded into HLMV/Hammer. The main model usually updates in HLMV if you hit Refresh (F5), but not always the hull.
Quote from: svtshep on March 03, 2014, 02:17:19 PM
Also, what purposes do the helpers serve? I vaguely remember them being important when creating proxies, but I can't remember any other time they're used.
The WWMT helpers are essential in many ways. They store the data and settings for your model. If deleted, you will lose your settings for a WWMT model and the model will not get exported into the VMF unless you assign a point entity to the mesh. Generally speaking, don't delete the helper if you intend to use it again with WWMT... or else you have to start over with its settings, etc.
Thanks for the help. I had another question. It seems that, in your videos, when you create a hull from a selection, it makes one copy of the original object. Why does it create two for me? That leaves me with 2 hulls and the object. For example, I will have:
Box012
Box012_Hull_Master001
Box012_Hull_Master001_Hull001
Not sure what the third is for. Also, when I generate a hull, it automatically hides the first two above and I have to 'unhide all' to bring them back.
Quote from: svtshep on March 04, 2014, 04:00:34 PM
Thanks for the help. I had another question. It seems that, in your videos, when you create a hull from a selection, it makes one copy of the original object. Why does it create two for me? That leaves me with 2 hulls and the object. For example, I will have:
Box012
Box012_Hull_Master001
Box012_Hull_Master001_Hull001
Not sure what the third is for. Also, when I generate a hull, it automatically hides the first two above and I have to 'unhide all' to bring them back.
What happens is this:
Box012 is the model.
Box012_Hull_Master001 is a copy of Box012. This is an intermediary mesh.
Box012_Hull_Master001_Hull001 is the generated hulls. If you like everything, keep this mesh and delete the Box012_Hull_Master001. If the generated hulls are not adequate, delete Box012_Hull_Master001_Hull001, reselect the Box012_Hull_Master001 and weld/break as needed and recreate the hull. Keep going until you have exactly what you want then delete the hull master (if you want).
There probably needs to be a little more clarification/obviousness about that in the docs... which I will update when I get some time.
Awesome. This is good news! I was hoping there was one that could be deleted. Lol. You should do a lesson 1 through X series with the new UI if you ever have a chance. That'd be helpful to new guys since there are different ways to go about doing things compared to when you did the last series of lessons. If I recall correctly, the lesson series was built around the use of Convexity which is now dead. I'm glad I got in when I did since WWMT has essentially phased out the need for Hammer at this point. Thanks again!
Quote from: svtshep on March 04, 2014, 06:18:11 PM
Lol. You should do a lesson 1 through X series with the new UI if you ever have a chance. That'd be helpful to new guys since there are different ways to go about doing things compared to when you did the last series of lessons. If I recall correctly, the lesson series was built around the use of Convexity which is now dead.
I will at some point. One issue is that until very recently, very few people have really been seriously interested in the level design side. For me it's been a no-brainer for years. But there is a very strong antagonism towards non-Hammer approaches in the general Source community. So the time and effort I've put into trying to demonstrate the level design tools has not generated much interest ... so it's often made me feel like I am wasting time trying to share/promote that side of WW.
Quote from: svtshep on March 04, 2014, 06:18:11 PM
I'm glad I got in when I did since WWMT has essentially phased out the need for Hammer at this point. Thanks again!
Spread the word brother! :)
I don't understand why there would be unless the Source community is comprised of old fans that aren't able to accept that the product that their used to is being phased out by something superior. I highly doubt any 'professional' maps put out are designed in Hammer, but rather in something like Max or Maya. Hammer just seems like a watered-down version of a 3D program which is why I ventured to find something that would let me use Max rather than just crumby block geometry. I've been doing 3D stuff off and on for years. I've switched back and forth between Cinema 4D and 3DS with the latter being what I've been using most recently.
I think that it is a mixture of historic happenstance mixed with a bunch of crowd myth. The historic truth is that there was never a complete VMF exporter for Source until Wall Worm; there used to be Convexity, but it never exported displacements or entity outputs--and was not free--not to mention was hardly known in the community. So most people simply thought it was impossible to use Max.
The myth side is that Max would be a bad solution. Searches that I used to do before I learned to program for Max would bring up people asking all the time if you can build maps for Source in Max--and the same repeated response year after year: "No you can't, and if you could it would be stupid anyway."
For some reason the idea that Max is capable of making convex BSP is oddly a hard thing to understand with some people. And no matter how many times I try to explain how easy it is to do the BSP layout AND models at one time in Max, people seem to just not understand. I'll get emails or see forum posts that say, "But if the whole level is models lighting will be bad." Of course, you can get good lighting on models in later versions of Source and with the right compile parameters... but who said that a WW scene has to be all models? I've been trying to explain to the community that all the BSP and brushes can be done in Max but I'm loosing steam on pushing that as people must brush me off as that crazy Worm guy :)
That being said, 90% of my efforts in the last year have been on all the level design tools, regardless of what the community understands.
Could you briefly explain how the 3D Skybox and Sky Writer work? I've tried to follow what pieces I could gather from different tutorials, but it's never worked for me.
Do both have to be used together in a scene? I can create a sealed 3D Skybox in the scene, apply your supplied material to it, get the camera, and tag the pieces as Skybox/Brush in Anvil. I will still get that weird, liquid-like black and white above.
With Sky Writer, I will create a simple environment with mr sky and mr sun that will render out fine in Max, but will have the same effect as above when loaded into Source. After I've created a simple environment, I will create a new sky, render the pieces, and compile. After that I will select it in Anvil and export the VMF. Still the same effect. Anything I should correct? Note: This is for CS:GO and I had read that there were problems with it, but that was back in 2012.
Thanks.
First, make sure that you have the latest version of WW because I just made a change a couple weeks back or so that added better compatibility for CS:GO in Sky Writer. To properly export a Sky material now for CS:GO and other mods that don't like the Sky Shader, uncheck the Sky checkbutton in the newer Sky Writer before exporting. (This will make UnlitGeneric Sky Materials, which is what CSGO wants.)
To answer your questions:
No, you do not need a Sky Writer object in the scene to use a 3D sky, and you do not need to use a 3D sky to use Sky Writer. The power to do both in a unified environment, though, is really what makes it so cool (in my opinion).
I will work on a sample scene and accompanying video for this as I know Joris Ceoen is also tipping his toes into these tools... and I'd love to see some people start taking advantage of them. Maybe I will have it this weekend.
I have the newest version (Feb 22nd was the release date I believe). I remember seeing the update about the UnlitGeneric Sky Materials when searching around for help and have made sure to do this correctly. I'll keep messing with it to see if I can get it to work properly. If I create a 3D Skybox, how do I go about texturing each 6 sides properly? Also, the video would be awesome and greatly appreciated!
I was thinking about it over the weekend and had this question: Is Sky Writer just for essentially taking pictures of your environment to use on a 3D skybox? Like taking all 6 views created from Sky Writer and manually applying the TGA files to the each side of the Skybox. I just wasn't sure if it was supposed to apply them automatically to anything tagged as Brush+Skybox once compiled.
Sorry this hasn't been more clear.
First, here are some informative links:
Sky Writer (http://dev.wallworm.com/topic/43/sky_writer.html) for rendering the 2D Sky
3D Sky Box (http://dev.wallworm.com/topic/45/3d_skybox.html) functions
And here is an example scene with a video (http://dev.wallworm.com/document/114/exporting_a_level_from_3ds_max_into_source.html) that goes along with it. You should be able to download the scene and quickly export all models, model materials, 2d sky, world materials and level in a couple minutes.
The video may be a little dated and (maybe even have some misinformation) but it should demonstrate to you how to use the various features and why they are there. Note that if using Max 2014, you should download the file linked on the right column labeled Export VMF 2014 (http://dev.wallworm.com/media/1/application/zip/original/97_ww_decal_example_2014.zip).
I already started putting together a more up-to-date scene for a newer video, but I probably won't have time to make it today like I originally planned. I forgot that the Cosmos remake premieres today!
[EDIT] And to answer your question, Sky Writer makes the 6 images that are projected into the sky of your level. You may have had black textures because you need to add a light_environment entity. The easiest way to accomplish this is to use a Daylight/Sunlight system in Max (as in the video/scene) or to add a Direct Light. These will always export as light_environment. As long as your VMF exporter has the name you chose for your sky when you rendered then compiled, that is all you need to do to get the sky to work.
The other 3d skybox is for automatically miniaturizing and moving the 3d skybox objects at export time so you don't have to make a mini copy for the 3D sky (objects outside the bounds of player. The sky writer sky is behind that in the view.
Thanks for putting together the video. I've checked out all of the links in the past, but I'll try to go over them again. Also, I had a chance to go to a private screening last week, but forgot.