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[Joris Ceoen]

Hello everyone,

So here I am again with a WIP of yet another cathedral... I did not abandon the previous version though I paused it for a CS:GO version that will be a completely new realisation of a cathedral that will push the gothic style even further.

Because it's going to be created for CS:GO I can mess around more with polygons and do just a little bit more compared to CS:S (I just need to keep away from using too many alpha textured models suggested by Robert Briscoe). That's not all, because this time around I will be using Wall Worm Model Tools' Anvil elements and CorVex completely, in other words I'm intentionally making this project to learn working with these amazing tools, and so far I have only been extremely positive and the experience and effectiveness of the tools are incredible so far, when I have used like probably not even half the program so far.

Not only is it amazing because you circumvent every external step that was earlier necessary, but everything is right on the boat, if something is wrong or missing, I'll just create it right into my level and when it's done it'll be there and on the end I'll just have to hit export a few time to get everything into a .bsp and get the map running.

Not to mention, if you remember that doing something wrong in Hammer is often the absolute end of your vmf, this is not the case in 3DS Max, so you have much more freedom in experimenting without you having to worry about corrupted files.

Anyways, enough of that, for those who used it or are using it they know what I mean. Here are some very early WIP screenshots of how it currently looks like, although those models in the pictures are the very final product of how some of the base elements of the cathedral will look like:







The last picture is showing the collisions for those who would be interested. Collisions are now even easier in 3DS Max. I mean, I used to make all of them in Sketchup because earlier in Sketchup I found it easier to do measurements, now this is completely useless with the introduction of CorVex.

If someone has remarks or commentary, I'd love to hear about them!

[wallworm]

Very nice! This is just the kind of thing I've been hoping the WW crowd would start doing more... sharing some WIPs and discussion.

Now some people will start seeing CorVex in action!

I hope we will see you use the 3D skybox functions in WW as well as Skywriter (2d sky).  ;)

[Joris Ceoen]

Because I had to leave a little earlier I could not set up all of the new models for the new WIP screenshots, instead I'll quickly share a viewport overview of how the level currently looks like in 3DS Max:



Sorry for the large size but resizing removes all detail. So that's how it currently looks like, I have hidden all WWMT helpers along with the collisionhulls. This is one side of the cathedral which will soon be copy-pasted to the other side to decide how large/small the midline of the crossplan will be (it shouldn't be too large). Then, I will proceed with what will be the most intensive part of the cathedral and that's the top of the cross which unfortunatly is a very complex task. Fortunatly in 3DS Max this will be easier now compared to Sketchup in the past (Yes... Sketchup...).

Tomorrow in-game screenshots!

[wallworm]

Excellent. I am enjoying seeing your progress! I may have to designate you an official ambassador! Keep it up!

At some point you will have to share a step-by-step for new users transitioning from Hammer to Max.  ;)

[Joris Ceoen]

Excellent. I am enjoying seeing your progress! I may have to designate you an official ambassador! Keep it up!

At some point you will have to share a step-by-step for new users transitioning from Hammer to Max.  ;)

I definitly will! My virtual studio for doing reviews/tutorials/other is almost done so when I have all of the resources I will start working on a video explaining all of the reasons why I switched to 3DS Max, along with a step-by-step tutorial on the forums :)

Btw, this reminds of the long forgotten tutorial about low-polygon models that you once asked me on my earlier cathedral WIP, that's definitly something I also got to do yet (although it's not related to WWMT in specific). It will interest mappers in doing modelling after all and as such could also be a motivation to switch as well. I'll keep you in touch on this!

EDIT: Small note but the window texture in the above picture is not the final one, I just quickly grabbed an old material that I already had in CS:S and used it here.

[Joris Ceoen]

Sorry for the big images but it's the only way to look at them in detail. So 2 of the 5 chapels of the crown from the cathedral are more or less done. I'm horrified of the lighting and the errornous shadow maps from the cascade maps that are yet unfixed in CS:GO, so I'll have to play with some settings later on for better shadows/lighting/normals.

I have already talked with Shawn about how I could project window lighting rays onto the surface provided I would know the final direction and lighting settings of the map and that would be Render-To-Texture. I will do this near the very end of my map so I don't waste time on eye-candy as that's currently the last I have to worry about.

When the full chapels are there, I'll post new pictures, after which I will proceed to the proxy system and start working on the other part of the cathedral (which shouldn't take much time anymore thanks to the proxies and having all assets being available by then). Then, I will proceed to the upper half of the cathedral which will be the big windows.

[wallworm]

Looking good Joris. Getting rid of the weird shadows is of course important, but I'm enjoying seeing the progress on this. Keep it up!

[Joris Ceoen]

I finally managed to mirror the right side and my first wing (at the bottom) is done. I have to proceed with the upper part and ceilings first, because I want to make the central ceiling square, so that each wing-corridor it connects (which logically are 4) is equally large and makes things much easier for modelling and then the proportions look correct. I'm deciding this based on the cathedral on which I'm referencing the models/geometry so it's the way it should be.

Once this very first wing is fully complete, I'll show a render and in-game representation of how it'll look like inside (only architecturally).

On a side note, just disabling shadows on all of the windows fixed considerably the lighting as the gap still casts light and will then bounce it off to the environment of each little chapel (so exactly like the way I want it: Light passing through and bouncing off light). However the shadows remains of course but that's not the biggest problem. I could see this and confirm it because when you go far away enough (400 inches) the cascade maps get removed, and you can clearly see the lightspot of the window. So all I'm left to do at the end is adding a kind of model that represent the reflection of the lightspot and window colors. Or, as Shawn suggested, Render-To-Texture.

[wallworm]

Keep it up Joris. It's coming along well!

[Joris Ceoen]

Not fully finished yet, but I though it looked like a abandoned cathedral-like ruin, so I decided to share anyways:



Achieved after a long road of WWMT versions with the aid of Anvil, proxies and the amazing skin system assigned to it!

[wallworm]

I meant to reply earlier but as I talked to you, forgot to reply here. It's really coming along Joris. I am excited to see this project evolve and look forward to some discussions on some techniques you employed and tactics you learned for using Max instead of Hammer.

[Joris Ceoen]

Don't worry! I'm already writing down most of the things I'm taking advantage of in 3DS Max over hammer. The list keeps growing every day ;)
Here is something new:



Small but shows the inside from the bottom. This is the big line inside, I will be adding extra cathedral-related items later on, and also finding an original way of making the whole area not a single-room but instead cut it up in different parts.

On the left you can see how I'm starting to go to the outside. I have deliberatly added 2 walls at the entrance on the front of the cathedral between the openings for cutting out the inside completely from the outside. This will be done with areaportals and skip/hint (the latter may be sufficient but having both could be necessary as sometimes hint/skip only does not tend to work properly on slight curves/corners, I truly do hope it does!).

I have decided by now how to divide the upper part from the cathedral (which is the roof) by looking a bit at de_mirage. At the bombsite with the big tower (can't remember the letter but it's not the market) you can clearly see from a mapper's point of view how Valve decided to merge both structures together as if they were one, yet there's a clean cut in the middle of the 2. The upper tower is 3D Skybox and as such will be visible anywhere, and as such makes it look as if the entire building is constantly present in the level. Yet, thanks to having cut those 2 bodies from each other, everything underneath the tower will be culled/hidden without having to sacrifice an otherwise ugly looking solution where either the whole thing would be removed (tower included) or instead having to place a ridicilously high skybox ceiling which would hinder the performance beyond useful.

This is what I want to achieve as well. The cathedral will be the highest building across the map, but I can't allow the cathedral to be rendered entirely at any point in the map or no one would be running my map (no matter if it is single player or multiplayer). So, I assume that the towers and the roof will be visible, whereas everything beneath it will not be rendered behind buildings or when being at either side of the cathedral. That makes a great solution for optimizing a structure that requires a lot of detail (gothic architecture) while still giving the PC a cool time running the map.

Of course, this would be impossible in Hammer. In 3DS Max with WWMT you can literally cut an object in 2, have the texture coördinates match up and still have both parts in the 3D Skybox and playlevel at the precise location, without texture coördinate inaccuracies! I can't wait to see this in action but I won't be waiting for too long by now ever since I can now start working on the towers, pillars, supports, windows, roof etc...

When I get to actually show something about this I will be posting new screens!

[Joris Ceoen]

A few new pictures:


The inside (still has the shadow problems but they are largely solved by now)


Currently how it looks like in 3DS Max. It's cool that I actually could render the whole map from any given point which is also something you can't do in Hammer.


From above


The left front tower. The right one is there too by now.


From the back. Notice how some models are having their origin in the inside of the cathedral. I still have to fix this by setting the illumination origin outside of the cathedral.



With and without 3d skybox, showing how precise you can work with the 3D Skybox tools!

There is more to come but since I only have 18 days left, I really need to focus right now!

[wallworm]

Excellent job Joris! Keep it up.

[func_Mathias]

Wow that's a pretty darn good job! Too bad the lighting doesn't keep up :-/