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[svtshep]

Want to start off by saying this an awesome plugin! I'm not so new to 3DS Max, but rather the plugin. I've probably watched a few hours worth of your tutorials and the plugin seems pretty intuitive. However, it seems as if my models do not update when edited and re-exported. For example:

I can create simple world geometry (4 walls, a ceiling, and a floor) and place a box in the middle of the map. I can apply a standard material with a bitmap (TGA) to the box, create a hull, assign it, set as concave, and export it as well as everything (all types of materials, paks, VMF, etc) as per directions and it will run fine in-game.

However, if I go back and edit the model in any way (size, material, position, etc) and re-export it along with an updated VMF file, the changes will not be reflected in-game and often show up as a black object.

It's probably a simple fix, but I haven't been able to find any topics or questions similar to this problem. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[wallworm]

Welcome to the forums :)

Well I cannot say that I know specifically what is going on, but I can give some ideas.

First, a question: is it just models that do not export or their textures too? Actually, I really meant to ask if the models AND textures are actually exporting again? (There is a global setting that will stop the WWMT exporter form overwriting existing QC files.)

OK. Well I think that I have seen this happen before, but I cannot recall the specific scenario. My gut tells me that this might happen if you keep the mod/game open while you recompiling. Is this true with you? If so, try to close out the game, recompile, then reload the level.

Let me know if this alleviates the problem.

[TIP] While developing the level, do not PAK the assets into the level. Instead, wait until you are prepared to release or distribute. This way, you do not need to re-export the VMF or repak the models/materials. I personally find that a little bit easier to deal with.

[svtshep]

Thanks for the prompt response! It's mostly the textures not updating upon change and re-exporting the model. The said textures have been exported and in the correct directories. If I resize the model or move it, it's sometimes reflected in the game, but sometimes not. The new texture is almost always never applied after editing and re-exporting the model leaving it black. Not sure if it's due to leaving the game open because sometimes I keep it open between tests and sometimes I don't. I believe I've tried to reboot the game and it didn't solve the problem. I'll start a new project and attempt to recreate the problem, but follow your advice to see if it indeed still recreates the issue. I will report back. Thanks!

[svtshep]

So, the model updated in-game after re-exporting it. I feel this is somehow related to following your advice on not PAKing. However, my point entities (terrorist spawn points to be specific) stopped working forcing me to 'spectate' in-game. This happened after updating the model and exporting it. Very strange. Also, I get a tracer-like blurry effect upon looking around in spectate mode. Seems like these issues shouldn't be related to updating a model. Also, running the compile batch alone doesn't update anything when running the map. I actually have to re-export the VMF and compile on export for each update to show in-game.

[wallworm]

I cannot think of a reason for the spawn points to stop working. Did you accidentally uncheck the Point Entities option in the Export settings of the VMF exporter?

The blurry sky is probably because the exporter needs to know the name of the sky to use. Enter a sky that is part of your mod, or create one with the Sky Writer tool in WW.

As to why it previously didn't do that and now does makes me think that the vmf export settings for the file got lost somehow.

As for running the compile batch... that function will do nothing if the scene hasn't been exported at least once; in terms of updating the scene, the export has to run for any actual changes related to scene settings (non model/texture compiling).

Let me know if this helps at all.

[svtshep]

The entities were checked during the export. I deleted all models (just one box in this case) and the points started working again. Really strange.

I recreated the model, redid what I had done previously and everything seems to work fine. I also had another question about hulls.

When I create a hull around an object and export that object, it seems as if that hull is married to the object in whatever position is was upon export. Therefor, I can move the original object around in the scene and it will still be concave where ever I place it regardless of where the hull master is located in the scene. That being said, what should I do with the hull just sitting in the scene? Hide it? It seems like it's just taking up space in the scene at that point. Also, what purposes do the helpers serve? I vaguely remember them being important when creating proxies, but I can't remember any other time they're used. Thanks for the replies!

Thanks for the replies!

[wallworm]

I have never experienced that problem. If it comes back, please send me a sample scene so I can determine the cause.

As for hulls... It is best practice for static prop models to combine your hulls into a single mesh (if not already) and then to keep the hull aligned relative to the mesh no matter where you move it. The easiest way to do that is, after combining the hulls into one mesh, linking the hull to the root model. Combining the hulls is not always recommended for skinned models or complex animated models that are concave.

There is a function in Hull Helper to quickly collapse hulls to one object called Merge Selected Hulls.

Note that linking the hull to the root mesh may not always work as expected if there are skin modifiers involved.

[TIP] Sometimes the hulls do not show up as changed in HLMV/Hammer if you compile a model while the model is currently loaded into HLMV/Hammer. The main model usually updates in HLMV if you hit Refresh (F5), but not always the hull.

[wallworm]

Also, what purposes do the helpers serve? I vaguely remember them being important when creating proxies, but I can't remember any other time they're used.

The WWMT helpers are essential in many ways. They store the data and settings for your model. If deleted, you will lose your settings for a WWMT model and the model will not get exported into the VMF unless you assign a point entity to the mesh. Generally speaking, don't delete the helper if you intend to use it again with WWMT... or else you have to start over with its settings, etc.

[svtshep]

Thanks for the help. I had another question. It seems that, in your videos, when you create a hull from a selection, it makes one copy of the original object. Why does it create two for me? That leaves me with 2 hulls and the object. For example, I will have:

Box012
Box012_Hull_Master001
Box012_Hull_Master001_Hull001

Not sure what the third is for. Also, when I generate a hull, it automatically hides the first two above and I have to 'unhide all' to bring them back.

[wallworm]

Thanks for the help. I had another question. It seems that, in your videos, when you create a hull from a selection, it makes one copy of the original object. Why does it create two for me? That leaves me with 2 hulls and the object. For example, I will have:

Box012
Box012_Hull_Master001
Box012_Hull_Master001_Hull001

Not sure what the third is for. Also, when I generate a hull, it automatically hides the first two above and I have to 'unhide all' to bring them back.

What happens is this:

Box012 is the model.

Box012_Hull_Master001 is a copy of Box012. This is an intermediary mesh.

Box012_Hull_Master001_Hull001 is the generated hulls. If you like everything, keep this mesh and delete the Box012_Hull_Master001. If the generated hulls are not adequate, delete Box012_Hull_Master001_Hull001, reselect the Box012_Hull_Master001 and weld/break as needed and recreate the hull. Keep going until you have exactly what you want then delete the hull master (if you want).

There probably needs to be a little more clarification/obviousness about that in the docs... which I will update when I get some time.

[svtshep]

Awesome. This is good news! I was hoping there was one that could be deleted. Lol. You should do a lesson 1 through X series with the new UI if you ever have a chance. That'd be helpful to new guys since there are different ways to go about doing things compared to when you did the last series of lessons. If I recall correctly, the lesson series was built around the use of Convexity which is now dead. I'm glad I got in when I did since WWMT has essentially phased out the need for Hammer at this point. Thanks again!

[wallworm]

Lol. You should do a lesson 1 through X series with the new UI if you ever have a chance. That'd be helpful to new guys since there are different ways to go about doing things compared to when you did the last series of lessons. If I recall correctly, the lesson series was built around the use of Convexity which is now dead.

I will at some point. One issue is that until very recently, very few people have really been seriously interested in the level design side. For me it's been a no-brainer for years. But there is a very strong antagonism towards non-Hammer approaches in the general Source community. So the time and effort I've put into trying to demonstrate the level design tools has not generated much interest ... so it's often made me feel like I am wasting time trying to share/promote that side of WW.

I'm glad I got in when I did since WWMT has essentially phased out the need for Hammer at this point. Thanks again!

Spread the word brother! :)

[svtshep]

I don't understand why there would be unless the Source community is comprised of old fans that aren't able to accept that the product that their used to is being phased out by something superior. I highly doubt any 'professional' maps put out are designed in Hammer, but rather in something like Max or Maya. Hammer just seems like a watered-down version of a 3D program which is why I ventured to find something that would let me use Max rather than just crumby block geometry. I've been doing 3D stuff off and on for years. I've switched back and forth between Cinema 4D and 3DS with the latter being what I've been using most recently.

[wallworm]

I think that it is a mixture of historic happenstance mixed with a bunch of crowd myth. The historic truth is that there was never a complete VMF exporter for Source until Wall Worm; there used to be Convexity, but it never exported displacements or entity outputs--and was not free--not to mention was hardly known in the community. So most people simply thought it was impossible to use Max.

The myth side is that Max would be a bad solution. Searches that I used to do before I learned to program for Max would bring up people asking all the time if you can build maps for Source in Max--and the same repeated response year after year: "No you can't, and if you could it would be stupid anyway."

For some reason the idea that Max is capable of making convex BSP is oddly a hard thing to understand with some people. And no matter how many times I try to explain how easy it is to do the BSP layout AND models at one time in Max, people seem to just not understand. I'll get emails or see forum posts that say, "But if the whole level is models lighting will be bad." Of course, you can get good lighting on models in later versions of Source and with the right compile parameters... but who said that a WW scene has to be all models? I've been trying to explain to the community that all the BSP and brushes can be done in Max but I'm loosing steam on pushing that as people must brush me off as that crazy Worm guy :)

That being said, 90% of my efforts in the last year have been on all the level design tools, regardless of what the community understands.

[svtshep]

Could you briefly explain how the 3D Skybox and Sky Writer work? I've tried to follow what pieces I could gather from different tutorials, but it's never worked for me.

Do both have to be used together in a scene? I can create a sealed 3D Skybox in the scene, apply your supplied material to it, get the camera, and tag the pieces as Skybox/Brush in Anvil. I will still get that weird, liquid-like black and white above.

With Sky Writer, I will create a simple environment with mr sky and mr sun that will render out fine in Max, but will have the same effect as above when loaded into Source. After I've created a simple environment, I will create a new sky, render the pieces, and compile. After that I will select it in Anvil and export the VMF. Still the same effect. Anything I should correct? Note: This is for CS:GO and I had read that there were problems with it, but that was back in 2012.

Thanks.